1/25/2009

"The beginning of wisdom is this. . ."

". . . Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight" My dad spoke on Proverbs 4 today in church.


I had been thinking about other wisdom related things namely Socrates. His belief was that the first step to obtaining wisdom is admiting you don't have wisdom. Plato, Socrates student, depicted socrates in his trial before he was put to death for leading young minds astray as follows. Socrates had been going around interviewing people like politicians who were known for their wisdom. But when he had finished he came to the conclusion that none of them had any wisdom or real knowledge. But all these people thought they were wise including themselves. Quoting Plato, who was quoting Socrates to a degree, "It is only too likely that neither of us have any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas i am quitesure of my ignorance." This is one of my first primary philosophies for me to run my life on. I grew up with my dad telling me that teenagers know nothing and are not wise, and I agreed. So I have had a great third person view of all my friends telling themselves that they know whats up.

I just get a good laugh at the whole thing.

7 comments:

RespectMyAuthorita said...

Wisdom and knowledge can be separated out as most people like to. They say, oh this guy has a lot of knowledge but isnt very wise about things. And vice versa. But I think normally the reason kids dont have wisdom, isnt because they arent wise, its because i think wisdom and knowledge have to be juxtaposed, and they dont have the experience and the knowledge from a lifetime of mistakes. The youngest kid could be one of the wisest people, because all the wisdom anyone needs is found in the bible. Its when they take their own thoughts rather than biblical principles and follow them, that they begin to look stupid or unwise.

On the flip side, i might disagree i think many kids posess wisdom and insight. Mostly its the difference between people who "get it" and people who dont. Most older people are gonna be much wiser due to years of experience gaining knowledge through mistakes/trials. But many children see the world better than most stupid adults. And there are a lot of them.

A highschool kid can have all the wisdom in the world, just because he doesnt act on the wisdom doesnt mean he doesnt have it. It means he doesnt see the price is worth the product. For example, i knew in highschool what the wise choice was in almost any situation, i knew the consequences and most long term effects it might have. But i did what i felt like doing anyway even if i knew it wasnt wise. I dont think that made me unwise by any means, it just meant i was either sinning, or not too worried about the future effects it might have. If i dug a financial hole, it wouldnnt be wise, i would have to pay it off and it might be a lot harder in 5 months, but i wanted the guitar then instead of saving for it later. So i dug myself a hole, and got the guitar, and worked my ass off later, but i had the guitar sooner, and now im a wicked player.

Evan Gunn said...

I don't believe that it is a set ordinance that you can only have either knowledge or wisdom, but it is that case for a lot of people we know.

In relation to your second paragraph i can agree that teenagers do have, in some cases, the better choice. But it is for all the wrong reasons. The adolescent mind runs on passion, and passion doesn't think, it wants. So whether or not it is a wise decision the teenager makes, they are still making it on the grounds of physical instant gratification. It is not made on the grounds, that they read the bible and thought this is the best thing for their long term spiritual growth.

-Gunn

andrew said...

1 Cor. 3:18.

RespectMyAuthorita said...

When you said, the childs mind runs on passion, it doesnt think, it wants. Untrue across the board. I think some of the wiser ones, know what the long term wise choice is, they just dont act on it, because they dont care. They are wise enough to discern between the 2, they just choose sin, because its more gratifying, because they know sin hath pleasure for a season. They know the future will come, but they would rather have a good season and deal with the consequences later. The unwise idiot, might have an idea whats right or wrong, but isnt wise enough to know whats coming his way later if he does choose B instead of A. So he chooses B and has all sorts of trouble later he didnt anticipate. The difference between the two who chose the wrong option,(B), is that one was "wise" and knew the consequences and when they would come his way and how he would have to deal with his poor decision, the other had no idea. Obviously the wisest would be the third man who would ultimately choose A) because of the headache he would forsee.

My main point is that you cant say across the board that kids are unwise idiots because they choose "B". There are unwise idiots who happen to always choose A because of a disposition for it, or just because it suits them better, or because they felt it was right, but had no wisdom or foresight into any of the consequences of either action.

Most children, and teenagers, are stubborn, and this doesnt make them unwise. Most wisdom comes from mistakes. Most of the wisest people are those that kept choosing "B" all growing up, and learned the hard tough lessons that made them stronger.

A lot of people see ambition as foolishness in this day and age. A lot of people take huge risks and fail over and over, while trying to hone in on their goal. All the while people call them unwise or foolish. And they see a lack of ambition, and having no will to risk anything as Wise. Meanwhile on the third try mr. ambition figures it out and makes serious bank. How does this relate to teenagers? Well they are trying things socially, checking out the lay of the land. Making mistakes, figuring out what life is about. While some older people look at them as idiots and fools, some of those kids, are just learning about what the world is like, a social education if you will. Some of the most foolish kids, run our country, make more money than we will ever know about.

Dont forget, just because something isnt wise, doesnt make it a sin. In your eyes you may see one make several foolish decisions and count him a fool, when on the next decision he makes he proves you wrong. Its like when there are 2 outs bases loaded, and the batter hits a high fly on purpose. You might say, what a fool. When in reality he made a sacrifice, 2 of the 3 runners tagged up and scored before the ball was caught to win the game.

Evan Gunn said...

Teenagers don't actually know what the wise decision is. They only know it if the wise one tells them. But even then they will make the unwise choice. I have been counseling a friend of mine for about four years now, and Graeme and I both have been giving him the same good advice this whole time. Despite that he still chooses to be an idiot. See Jason in doesn't matter how well we communicate to him what he should do still to this day he argues with us about who is right. He is an unwise teenager who thinks he has got everything figured out. We have explained the consequences to him every time he gets a new girlfriend, and he still thinks its smart, but that is another argument.

Maybe is some cases, Jason, they do know what is better for them but they don't know why it is, so they go with there animalistic instinct. If you can show me a teenager who really gets it but doesn't follow through with wise actions, then you might have a valid argument. Otherwise it sounds really stupid that someone can have it figured out but still be an idiot. Wisdom isn't just knowing what is right, but knowing why it is right. like reading the bible to obtain it. These kids that you say are "wise" are only "wise" because they themselves thought their parents were unfair about something trivial. not because of some bible verse they were reciting in their head.

In short, real wisdom comes from the bible, and not from a teenage brain. And go look up I Corinthians 3:18 that Andrew had posted. it pretty much says it all.

-Gunn

CDJT said...

Proverbs 9:10-
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and knowledge of the holy is understanding."

Wisdom is something acquired as one grows in the Lord. Philosophies that do not conform with Christ are by nature flawed.
The teenage mind lacks experience in life, and so naturally tests the waters of sin and folly. As one grows older, he is given the opportunity to learn from his mistakes.

Evan Gunn said...

well said creed